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March 20, 2009

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Comments

Tony E.

Good post Dave. I agree, a lot of people do define the experience of discipleship as a cognitive, bible knowledge thing. The other common abuse is that many people approach discipleship as the pure checklist--reading the bible enough, praying enough, quiet time enough, etc. But I think a lot of it is semantics too. The only problem is that people have abused the word, as you said, and as a result have spoiled the experience.

While not every church may approach spiritual growth with the same principles CCC does, the good thing about CCC that cannot be denied is the fact that you have cultivated an environment that is action and growth focused--a holistic approach which is very much like the Hebrew mindset.

Kathyj

As always, spot on! I believe that CCC's success not only evolved out of these points you've delineated but has emerged out of leadership that has consistently exhibited authentic relationship with the heart of God and modeling their own spiritual growth. We can't impart to others what we don't already possess.

Just thinking...We are filled, molded and transformed in our vertical relationship with the heart of God through His Spirit. Is discipleship an organic, Spirit-filled, Spirit-empowered process? Is He the catalyst that opens and transforms the mind and will to be the Christ-follower that He has created us to be or is the catalyst a vision, program or ministry? Probably both? Is discipleship equivalent to sanctification? Perhaps discipleship is the human effort and sanctification the the Spirit effort?

Melissa Salomon

Dave,
What do you mean a "dashboard" to track the 3C followers? Can you share? Great post by the way...thank you!

Anne

I'd like to know more about the dashboard as well..

Dawn Bodi

I ditto the above thought. Can blog about how the dashboard works next?

Darien Gabriel

I love this! It's concise, comprehensive and keeps the responsibility where it belongs. That "Dashboard" thingy, I'd like to get my hands on one of them. Suggestions?

Jeff Pessina

Good stuff Dave! Lovin it!

What you shared...

* Celebrate on a daily basis
* Connect with other Christ followers
* Contribute with time, talent, treasure

...flows very much in parrellel with Dave Browning's book "Deliberate Simplicty", wherein he shares the story of CTK's lead Pastor, who demanded strict observance of 3 main things if he was to take the lead position of the Church. He made the church leadership sign an agreement that they would focus on:

* Worship (celebrate)
* Small Groups (connect)
* Outreach (contribute)

This concentration ("the art of elimination") has led them to huge success. Today I was discussing this with one of our leaders and was reminded of Jesus with Mary and Martha, and how Mary was commended for choosing the most important things, while Martha was corrected for being busy with too many things.

I am constantly amazed at how long it has taken much of the Church to wake up. Our heroes from "the early church" had no Bibles. No formal education. The early "church fathers" were mostly from the fisherman society. They didn't even know the real plan. Yet they spread like wildfire and reached the world in their generation by operating in unconsious competence... the simplicty of the early church is purely awesome.

How thankful we should be for the Chinese authorities for forcing the Chinese church to cherish God's Word (by making it illegal), and for forcing them to prioritize small groups (by outlawing public Christian gatherings). The Chinese Church has exploded under what could be considered a set of New Testemant priorities forced on them!

At Frontline we are being led more and more to prioritize small groups and leadership development (discipleship) in the context of relationship (small groups) where we connect with each other and with Christ (corporate and personal worship) and ministry (outreach).

We are very excited at the shift we see occuring in the Chruch today, and believe God is up to big things by welcoming us all back to the small time.

Chris

Dave,

Where does the "C" of Commitment and Counting the Cost and Bearing the Cross come into your view of discipleship?

Enjoyed the blog. Looking forward to the "dashboard" way to visualize progress made.

Eric Haven

Dave,

I'm interested in your "dashboard" mechanism. I've been wanting to create one of my own to measure critical ministry parameters. Are you willing to share your construct?

E

Rev. Dr. Greg J. Monaco Dalle-Tezze

The root of the word disciple means student. We are called to be students of like. We are gatherers. WE ARE NOT HUNTERS. We are challenged to grow and learn at every moment. This means we are to travel light and be graced (energized) by all especially those who are different than us. Good theology is still good theology. Cheap grace is still cheap grace. Believe in people not the institution. That might give us an idolatrous character. So in essence...what am I saying: "Don't need to build churches...build bridges." Don't make God a work order or a way for you to look good or "increase your flock." Deeds not creeds...your own personal characeter not numbers of people. Get a good education and theological traing from accredited schools.
We have good hearts. Follow your hearts.

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